TarValon Talks Episode 5: The Slog
General
Hosts:
Release date:
- November 16th, 2022
Synopsis:
In this episode our hosts Thad, Doll, and Fenya discuss the dreaded slog. What constitutes the slog, why is the slog so hard to read, and how does when you started reading the books affect how you feel about it.
Episode 4 Transcript
00;00;12;16 - 00;00;34;21
Thad
Welcome to TarValon Talks. This is episode five. And this week we will be talking about the slog. And the slog is kind of an eponymous term that can be extremely subjective. And I say subjective and not objective because to different people it means different things. We could have three different viewpoints on this, this evening. So we're going to find out what's what.
00;00;34;29 - 00;00;38;08
Thad
So tonight I am joined by Doll and Fenya.
00;00;38;14 - 00;00;39;00
Doll
Hello.
00;00;39;04 - 00;00;39;21
Fenya
Hello.
00;00;39;25 - 00;00;41;22
Thad
So what does the slog mean to you?
00;00;42;07 - 00;00;51;15
Doll
So for me, the slog started shortly after Winter's heart. I'm really terrible with the order of the books, Winter's Heart and then Crossroads.
00;00;51;19 - 00;01;06;03
Thad
Crossroads of Twilight. Yes, technically the same book. I know we've talked about that before. It's all of the same events that happens across two different books. Yeah. So that, that is I think where a lot of people can agree.
00;01;06;03 - 00;01;21;18
Doll
Yeah. Yeah. Winter's heart was a little slow, but it really dragged in Crossroads of Twilight. But for me, Winter's Heart was the last book published when I started reading For Real, not the five or six times I started Eye of the World and put it down. When did it start for you?
00;01;22;01 - 00;02;31;11
Thad
For me? I started reading in the late nineties. I think 98 was when I started reading. So I think at about that time, Path of Daggers was the most recently published book, but I didn't get through all eight books in the first year, so arguably, maybe a little sooner than that because I was an angsty teen that wanted to see how cool Rand could be. And I didn't really want to deal with all of this worldbuilding and all of these other characters that I just honestly, on the first read didn't care too much about. I didn't care what the Aes Sedai in Salidar were doing. I really just wanted to see what the Dragon Reborn was doing. I wanted to see what Perrin was doing. I wanted to see what Mat was doing.
So when it got to probably about a Crown of Swords for me like post Dumai’s Wells, because that's like the coolest stuff. And then we hit this drag about what's going to happen next. That through Crossroads of Twilight for me generally tends to be the slog because now we kind of hit this slow pace of, “All right, all this stuff has happened. We're going to sit and stew on political stances between different countries for a couple of books.”
00;02;31;23 - 00;02;32;27
Doll
So, Fenya, what do you think?
00;02;33;09 - 00;03;26;00
Fenya
Obviously I read the books after they had all been published. And when I started reading, Dianna was warning me like, “Oh, you're getting close to a slog. You're you're getting close to the slog.” And then I started book eight and I was like, “Oh, this is fine. I don't find this a slog at all.” And my definition of slog, I look back through my text messages to Diana, and I defined it as something that I can only get through if I pour myself a glass of wine.
So I found it okay, and then we get to Perrin and poor Perrin just does absolutely nothing. He sits around and thinks about how much he wants to do stuff, but he does not do anything. And I found that just intolerable. Like the stuff with Faile was really interesting. So. So everything that Perrin was involved with was interesting. But Perrin’s viewpoint in particular was just really tough for me to get through.
00;03;26;08 - 00;03;27;24
Doll
I think a lot of people agree with that.
00;03;28;08 - 00;03;53;15
Thad
Perrin is really hard because he is more or less the constant exposition because of his sense of smell we always get like the situation is going on and Perrin is kind of that removed third party of “Oh, I can smell her being angry at this guy”, but shows nothing of it when the conversation is going on between those two characters.
So he's our exposition, which is why I can see a lot of people having problems with him.
00;03;54;04 - 00;03;59;14
Fenya
It was just very, very slow. So when I got there I was like, okay, I get why people might say this is a slog.
00;04;00;08 - 00;04;15;06
Doll
He also like to sit there and whine about not being able to save his wife. Mm hmm. For how many books? It feels like it's a whole, like, multiple books, but it's really only like one full book and maybe part of two other books I can't really remember now.
00;04;15;06 - 00;04;37;25
Thad
It was definitely one of those things as the books were coming out and you know, there at the end before Robert Jordan passed away, it was like four years between each book. So it was just four years of stewing on, “oh my God, Faile is going to be forever captured” to us who were reading it at the time. It was like a ten year tenure of her being captured and you do a book a month or something like that. It's not that long.
00;04;38;00 - 00;04;47;29
Fenya
It was not quite that bad. So I was very grateful that I did have all of the books. And once I, you know, once I got through one book, I could just move on to the next. I didn't have a big gap in between.
00;04;48;08 - 00;04;54;11
Doll
Yeah, I think that helped a lot. My theory was what you think the slog is depends entirely on when you started reading.
00;04;54;11 - 00;05;14;14
Thad
I have some friends that read probably the first five or six books and they're like the first three are the worst because it doesn't pick up till four. And I'm like, okay, that's that's an interesting viewpoint. I don't hear that one very often from people, but I've heard at least twice that specifically because the first three books are more Tolkien in nature before it really takes off.
00;05;14;24 - 00;05;20;07
Doll
Plot he proposed for the first book was supposed to end Dragon Reborn and it ended up being three books.
00;05;20;22 - 00;05;29;05
Thad
Yeah, yeah. I always remember hearing that he wanted it to be a trilogy and then it turned into a Quadrilogy, and then it just kind of kind of kept going from there.
00;05;29;05 - 00;05;40;11
Fenya
Yeah. I can't imagine telling the story that he ended up telling in just three books. Like, there's so much to it. Like how how could you ever tell it in just three books?
00;05;40;28 - 00;05;41;19
Doll
I don't know.
00;05;41;22 - 00;05;43;17
Thad
Get rid of a lot of exposition.
00;05;43;17 - 00;05;47;11
Doll
A lot of exposition. You have to take away a lot of what made the books so unique.
00;05;47;17 - 00;06;33;10
Fenya
I mean, you would lose so much depth to it. I made my mother read the books after I finished the series, and when the TV show came out, I was like, Mom, you have to read these books. You'll really, really love them. I know it's kind of intimidating because there are so many books in the series, but you'll love all of the politicking. You'll absolutely adore it. And eventually I was able to convince her and she blazed through it.
When she was getting to like Book eight or nine, I was like, Oh, you know, you might be slowing down a little bit because she was reading these books in like one week. I mean, she was going really fast and she got there and was like, “No, this is no slog at all. Like, I'm, I'm still enjoying them just as much as I have been.” And she continued her pace until she finished the series.
00;06;33;28 - 00;06;34;24
Doll
That's impressive.
00;06;34;28 - 00;06;47;01
Thad
Probably the fastest I ever read them was when the final three were coming out and I would reread the other two like the month before it would come out. That was like a week, maybe two weeks for each book, and they're already pretty big boys.
00;06;47;04 - 00;07;08;06
Doll
When I was reading them first, it would take them a month or more to read through for me. I have binocular vision disorder and dyslexia. So really slow reader. I read big books, but I read them very very slowly so the last read through took me 18 months and that was right before A Memory of Light came out. I wanted to get through all of the books.
00;07;08;06 - 00;07;13;25
Thad
I think that's what everybody did too. Like, I don't know anybody that just picked up the last book and read it or something.
00;07;13;28 - 00;07;44;03
Doll
I realized when the first one that Brandon wrote came out I didn’t do a reread and I couldn't remember who everybody was, so I was like, you know, I realized I needed to do a reread. So I finished right before Towers of Midnight came out and I read it and then reread it right before A Memory Light came out, which was like what., a year or so later, year and a half. So I just reread that one instead of the whole series one more time, but that means I only read A Memory of Light once.
00;07;44;13 - 00;07;53;21
Thad
You know, it's wild about the slog, though, that if you go by the post crown of Swords through Crossroads of Twilight to Knife of Dreams, that means you generally have to include New Spring.
00;07;54;05 - 00;07;55;17
Doll
I don't think New Spring counts.
00;07;55;17 - 00;07;58;18
Fenya
Yeah, I don't. I, I wouldn't count New Spring either.
00;07;59;09 - 00;08;01;12
Thad
They published around the same time as those.
00;08;01;12 - 00;08;07;06
Fenya
Yeah. If you're going by publication date but if you're going by like story chronology, it doesn't fit in the slog.
00;08;07;25 - 00;08;16;17
Thad
You know what I always say you technically should be reading this book after Crosswords of Twilight. So to me it would fall within the confines of the definition of the slog.
00;08;16;25 - 00;08;20;13
Doll
It was actually published twice. I can't remember when the first time it was published.
00;08;20;15 - 00;08;25;05
Thad
It came out and in, god…came out when I was in my first year in college, which was 2004.
00;08;25;07 - 00;08;28;13
Doll
And that's when the novel came out. The novella came out before that.
00;08;28;14 - 00;08;29;10
Thad
Oh, I see.
00;08;29;10 - 00;08;34;29
Fenya
I think it's really interesting that you say that it should be read after book ten. Is that the one that you’re saying?
00;08;35;14 - 00;08;37;21
Thad
Yeah, that's Crossroads of Twilight specifically.
00;08;37;21 - 00;08;56;04
Fenya
I know the book names. If you gave me a name, I can say yes, that's the Wheel of Time book, but I don't know what number they are. But I think it's really interesting that you say that it should be right after Crossroads of Twilight, because I feel you're much better served honestly by reading it once you finish the series.
00;08;56;22 - 00;09;11;08
Thad
I have heard that argument, but I've also heard from I want to say completely unsourced, that I have heard from Jordan himself that you should be reading it at about that time and not do one of those things of read it before you start the series, because it gives away a whole lot of stuff.
00;09;11;08 - 00;09;34;05
Fenya
I definitely don't think you should read it before you start the series for sure, because like you say, there's so much discussed in it that is just kind of spoilery for a whole bunch of the series. I think I read it after Book six because that's when Diana said that I should read it. I kind of regret it because at that point there was still context that I was missing and like I hadn't met Cadsuane for example.
00;09;34;19 - 00;09;38;08
Thad
Yeah, because she doesn't appear until halfway or later through Crown of Swords.
00;09;38;13 - 00;09;46;08
Fenya
Yeah. So I wish that I had read it later and I think that probably influences why I think you should read it at the end of the series.
00;09;47;01 - 00;10;04;08
Thad
Well I mean, the appearance of Cadsuane is kind of a..uh..in the sense the story she was this all powerful Aes Sedai that just disappeared and everybody thought she was dead. And then she is she's back and she's bigger than ever. And yeah, if you read New Spring before she returns, it kind of spoils the fact.
00;10;04;23 - 00;10;10;22
Doll
So I found the publish date, the short story was published in 1990.
00;10;10;27 - 00;10;12;24
Thad
Wow. 1990 something.
00;10;13;03 - 00;10;14;16
Doll
Oh, 1998.
00;10;14;26 - 00;10;16;14
Thad
Okay. That's when I started reading.
00;10;17;01 - 00;10;29;03
Doll
It came out in an anthology with a story from Robert Jordan, Stephen King, Terry Goodkind, Ann McCaffrey, Raymond E Feist, Orson Scott Card. It's a really good anthology. It had a really good..
00;10;29;03 - 00;10;31;29
Thad
Wow, that's the ‘S’ tier league right there.
00;10;32;06 - 00;10;39;16
Doll
It's like basically everybody that was big and this was actually, I think before Martin published A Game of Thrones. Ah, no, I guess not.
00;10;39;26 - 00;10;42;05
Thad
No, Game of Thrones is 96, right?
00;10;42;06 - 00;10;51;10
Doll
Yeah. It would have been right after he published it. So it would have been before it was huge but uh, Martin, Pratchett, Feist. Ursula K Le guin…
00;10;51;16 - 00;10;52;08
Thad
Jeez.
00;10;52;21 - 00;10;55;16
Doll
Robert Silverberg, Tad Williams.
00;10;55;19 - 00;10;57;18
Fenya
Those are big names for sure.
00;10;58;05 - 00;11;00;02
Thad
Like all of the….like every single one.
00;11;00;03 - 00;11;04;04
Doll
Basically everybody that was big in fantasy. I have a copy of it somewhere.
00;11;04;10 - 00;11;06;25
Thad
Boy, I'm going to have to hunt down a copy of that.
00;11;06;25 - 00;11;07;27
Doll
It's not easy to find.
00;11;08;06 - 00;11;09;16
Thad
Oh, of course it's not.
00;11;09;25 - 00;11;12;07
Doll
I happened to find it in a used bookstore years ago.
00;11;12;14 - 00;11;13;22
Fenya
That's a lucky find.
00;11;13;29 - 00;11;14;27
Doll
Yeah.
00;11;15;01 - 00;11;18;28
Thad
Mhm. It's like the time I found a signed Robert Jordan book and a used bookstore for like three bucks.
00;11;19;00 - 00;11;21;00
Doll
Wow, that's cool. That's really cool.
00;11;21;02 - 00;11;26;00
Thad
It's personalized to somebody. But it was years after his death and I was like, I'll take what I can get.
00;11;26;07 - 00;11;27;21
Fenya
That can be my name just for this book.
00;11;27;21 - 00;11;30;01
Thad
Yeah, my name is Sarah. My name is Sarah now.
00;11;30;07 - 00;11;35;27
Fenya
Yeah. Hey, I mean, you could give it to me because my name actually is Sarah.
00;11;35;27 - 00;11;37;17
Doll
But yeah, that was just a novella.
00;11;37;20 - 00;11;40;12
Thad
Was it like an abridged version of what the final story came to be?
00;11;41;06 - 00;11;44;15
Doll
Yeah, he fleshed it out for the novel for release in 2004.
00;11;44;16 - 00;11;56;21
Thad
I will say that my one fun trivia fact about New Spring is that it is the only time in the entirety of the Wheel of Time story that you hear somebody mention a bathroom.
00;11;56;24 - 00;11;59;23
Doll
What about the baths that Elayne took for like.
00;12;00;05 - 00;12;03;26
Thad
No, no, no, no. Specifically going to use the bathroom.
00;12;03;26 - 00;12;05;22
Doll
Oh, the toilet.
00;12;05;22 - 00;12;19;13
Thad
I think it was someone asked where Moiraine was and one of the Malkieri fellows was just like, I think she went off to the privy and Lan was like, we don't talk about that. And that was like it. And it's kind of sticks with me.
00;12;20;00 - 00;12;21;04
Doll
I don't remember that.
00;12;21;10 - 00;12;26;25
Thad
I'm sure someone's going to fact check me on it and I'm probably a little bit wrong, but yeah, it does happen.
00;12;26;26 - 00;12;30;13
Doll
Yeah. I mean, I believe you. It's it's not something that stood out to me, I guess.
00;12;31;05 - 00;12;51;13
Thad
Well, because for me it was just like I have never heard because, you know, Jordan was more or less a very clean writer in terms of he really didn't like, you know, how some fantasy authors were getting down to the nitty gritty of the descriptions of some stuff? well, I mean, we don't really get that in Wheel of Time. It's all kind of just assumed.
00;12;52;11 - 00;12;55;29
Doll
You know, I don't really need to know that the Aes Sedai go to the bathroom.
00;12;56;05 - 00;12;57;07
Thad
Yeah, right.
00;12;58;14 - 00;13;10;00
Doll
I can just assume that they did. Unless it's important to the plot, like the Chamber of Secrets hidden in the bathroom. I don't need to know anything about the bathroom. I certainly don't need five chapters of Elayne in there.
00;13;10;27 - 00;13;15;09
Fenya
I did find I have to admit, I did find a lot of Elayne’s plotline, a bit of a slog.
00;13;15;14 - 00;13;19;28
Doll
Yeah, I think that's one. The intrigue was interesting, but it really dragged on.
00;13;20;03 - 00;13;32;10
Thad
I think for me it was in Winter's Heart when it felt like it took half the book to leave Ebou Dar. For me, that was the really big thing of, “Oh my God, is it really taking him 15 chapters to escape the city?”
00;13;32;17 - 00;13;49;04
Fenya
I didn't mind that. It was just when she got pregnant and then suddenly her entire plotline was just her being pregnant. And that I found frustrating. But that's also not like I have no interest in pregnancy or reading about pregnancy. So that was. That was just not for me.
00;13;49;15 - 00;13;57;00
Doll
Yeah. I can't say that was my favorite point. Like she was also trying to secure her place for the throne. They thought her mother was dead and..
00;13;57;00 - 00;14;00;25
Fenya
If it had focused more on that, I would have liked it more.
00;14;01;00 - 00;14;03;18
Doll
But there were so many descriptions of her bath.
00;14;03;24 - 00;14;14;04
Fenya
Yeah. And like, her morning sickness. And I know that, you know, when you're pregnant, you have morning sickness. And it's great that that was included. But I didn't need to hear about it so often.
00;14;14;08 - 00;14;17;14
Doll
And it was a lot of how it affected her use the power, too.
00;14;17;15 - 00;14;17;25
Fenya
Yeah.
00;14;17;28 - 00;14;43;06
Thad
Oh, yeah, that's right. They did specifically talk about that, how her power would fluctuate just because it's kind of the weirdest thing too, because it's like the first time we're hearing about it. I don't remember any other character in the series being like actively pregnant. That's like the only perspective that we get on a one power user in pregnancy. What is what is it? The baby feeds on the one power. That's why her power fluctuates? I don’t know..
00;14;43;06 - 00;14;54;07
Fenya
I mean, if you think about it, like it's a kind of interesting concept that pregnancy and affects their use of the one power. So from that standpoint, like I liked it, it just there was a lot of it.
00;14;54;11 - 00;15;04;23
Doll
Yeah, it really could have been condensed. like, one chapter. The other thing that really got to me in escaping Ebou Dar, a building fell on Mat and then we don't see them for a whole book.
00;15;05;18 - 00;15;06;18
Thad
Oh yeah that's right.
00;15;07;08 - 00;15;11;04
Doll
I got done with. Was it in the next book, was it in Path of Daggers or was it..
00;15;11;09 - 00;15;14;16
Thad
The next book after Crossroads of Twilight is Knife of Dreams.
00;15;14;24 - 00;15;18;23
Doll
Yeah, I get Knife of Dreams and Path of Daggers mixed up because they're both knives.
00;15;18;23 - 00;15;20;07
Thad
Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
00;15;20;12 - 00;15;28;28
Doll
But he doesn't show up again until Knife of Dreams. He's not..or is it Knife of Dreams the one he's not in? I can't remember.
00;15;29;00 - 00;15;47;03
Thad
He's in Crossroads of Twilight because that's his part of the story from Winter's Heart. I'm a little fuzzy on Knife of Dreams at this point. It's been so long since I've done a reread of it, but I believe we have most everybody in that book at that point since that kind of since the previous two books kind of sync everybody back up.
00;15;47;14 - 00;15;51;08
Doll
I just can't because I remember getting through and going, “What the hell happened to Mat?”
00;15;51;14 - 00;15;57;19
Fenya
That would have been a horrible cliffhanger to not have another book immediately afterwards.
00;15;58;04 - 00;15;58;21
Doll
It was.
00;15;59;03 - 00;16;08;03
Thad
Yeah. We lived with that for about four years because it was like it was like 2000, I think was Winter's Heart and 2001 was like, Crossroads of Twilight.
00;16;08;04 - 00;16;11;26
Doll
Winter's Heart was in 2000 because that's when I started reading.
00;16;12;04 - 00;16;14;17
Thad
Yeah. And The Knife of Dreams was 2004.
00;16;14;18 - 00;16;15;13
Doll
2005.
00;16;15;22 - 00;16;20;09
Thad
2005. And then we didn't get Gathering Storm until..bum bum bummm..
00;16;20;27 - 00;16;21;24
Doll
2009.
00;16;21;29 - 00;16;31;04
Thad
2009. So yeah, but after, after the passing of Jordan, everybody was just like, well, that's it. We're never going to find out what happens.
00;16;31;18 - 00;16;55;15
Doll
Yeah. Although if you had read the blogs when things were starting to look not good, he worked as long as he could. And then when he, you know, couldn’t get out of bed he called Wilson in and he's like, I want to tell you something. And he basically started dictating the end of the book and Wilson went “Hold on”. And he went out to Wal-Mart and bought like, I think he actually went out all over Charleston to find as many tapes as he could find the tape recorder.
00;16;55;15 - 00;17;02;15
Thad
Yeah, because we at least at the first JordanCon got to hear an audio dictation of the opening of Gathering Storm.
00;17;02;15 - 00;17;13;02
Doll
Yes, that was the that was the first tape he did. Like he basically dictated it word for word. It barely changed. And that will probably never see the light of day again.
00;17;13;22 - 00;17;17;21
Fenya
That's incredible, though, that it was played at JordanCon the first one.
00;17;17;25 - 00;17;22;18
Thad
Mm hmm. Yeah, they did, I believe, at the opening ceremonies. Either that or the closing.
00;17;22;20 - 00;17;24;27
Doll
And Harriet sort of surprised us with it.
00;17;25;13 - 00;17;31;23
Thad
Yeah, because we were all just like, whoa, whoa, wait a second, what is this? And that was like right before they also announced, oh, it's going to be three books instead of one.
00;17;31;23 - 00;17;42;12
Doll
Yeah, I think it wasn't specifically opening ceremonies that were like we had a big panel with Brandon and Harriet on it talking about the books and we had to have everybody agree to not record.
00;17;42;18 - 00;17;50;12
Thad
Yeah, that was that was a big thing. I remember that. They were just like, please. It was like a heartfelt please don't do this. Please don't record this.
00;17;50;21 - 00;18;07;00
Doll
Please? It's like we're about to share something very special and very intimate and out of respect, please put your phones away and do not record and do not speak. And I never heard of more silence in the room. We had like 120 something people.
00;18;07;07 - 00;18;08;22
Thad
Yeah, it was. It was pretty small.
00;18;09;02 - 00;18;57;06
Doll
It was pretty small. And she starts playing the tape. Have you ever met Robert Jordan? He had this big, booming voice and he was very, very weak and very small, especially for him. And he basically read us what essentially is the prologue for a Gathering Storm. You could hear the, us, you know, a wind started in I forget where it starts, but you know, and it sweeps over everything.
And like after five or 10 minutes in it ends, you could hear a pin drop. And every now and then you'd hear sniffles and people crying. And it was just so moving and Harriet was like, Thank you for sharing that with us and that was the end of the panel. And everybody just left in quiet like there's not a dry eye in that room.
All right. Now I'm crying.
00;18;57;06 - 00;19;00;07
Fenya
I had chills just listening to you tell that story.
00;19;00;13 - 00;19;01;24
Doll
It was extremely special.
00;19;02;00 - 00;19;32;06
Thad
Yeah, it really was. Definitely glad to be a part of that. For me I didn't keep up with the Wheel of Time community at all because I didn't really participate in any online, so I knew Dragonmount existed. I would go there sometimes, but I wasn't a part of it. And I knew that Robert Jordan had his blog there, and I remember seeing some posts sometimes, but I never really paid attention to it. And I had no idea that he was having the problems he was having until basically the end.
00;19;32;17 - 00;20;00;18
Doll
He started blogging when he was diagnosed and he talked about how he was a fighter and he was going to be the five percent to beat it, and I really thought it was going to happen and towards the end Wilson started taking over. He's like, he's too weak, but he still fighting. And then at the very end it was like, well, he fought hard, but it was just too much.
It was interesting, especially getting to know Wilson through that because he became a part of the community as well and we actually just lost Wilson. So that was just another hard one.
00;20;01;02 - 00;20;01;16
Thad
Yeah.
00;20;01;23 - 00;20;03;01
Doll
Okay, I really am crying.
00;20;03;11 - 00;20;05;24
Thad
This episode brought to you by the emotion of sadness.
00;20;05;24 - 00;20;06;03
Doll
Yeah.
00;20;06;25 - 00;20;23;16
Thad
Going back to it now that we've all maybe not you Fenya, but Doll, you read the series more than once at this point. Would you say that on a second read, listen, whatever, however you process the media, would you say that it was a slog to you the second time around, third time around, fourth time around?
00;20;23;27 - 00;20;34;00
Doll
There was definitely a little bit of a slog, but I found it less be like whole books in more just certain chapters in particular, you know Perrin moping about Faile.
00;20;34;00 - 00;21;15;08
Thad
That's definitely a big thing for me as well. I find myself being less annoyed by “the slog” at this point. It would be specific character moments. Perrin is one of them. Because, you know, as I previously mentioned, his whole exposition on the feelings of everybody currently in the situation that he's engaged in. I'm in the middle of Crown of Swords right now, and I'm really wanting to see more of Nynaeve and Elayne's thing trying to find the Bowl of Winds in Ebou Dar like, I want to see them finding the Bowl of the Winds, but right now we're stuck with the process of Elayne…not Elayne, Egwene going through being the Amrylin and trying to get everybody's respect. And I'm just like…*sighs*
00;21;16;05 - 00;21;37;19
Fenya
See, I'm the opposite. Like I wanted to see more of Egwene and that process, like I didn't find that particularly a slog. I haven't reread the books though. I've read the series the once and I haven't had a chance to reread it yet, so I don't know if my feelings on the slow bits will change. It is interesting how different people find different aspects of the slog…a slog.
00;21;37;22 - 00;22;07;08
Thad
For me personally, it more or less comes down to the notion of I know what's going to happen to this character coming up. So it's just like, all right, this part is going to be slow because I know what's going to come and just having to go through the process with this again, it's like, all right, let's wrap it up and move forward because we know that this is just going to…this is just a little dip in the road kind of thing. You're going to be fine. So it's less of a “I'm annoyed with the character”. It's just I know what's going to happen, so let's just get to it.
00;22;07;27 - 00;22;09;04
Fenya
Get to the good bit..
00;22;09;10 - 00;22;13;12
Thad
Do either of you have any more insight on the Slog™?
00;22;13;29 - 00;22;21;15
Fenya
Well, it's not part of what is traditionally referred to as the slog, but honestly, I found a lot of the last book kind of a slog.
00;22;21;27 - 00;22;23;19
Thad
You found A Memory of Light a slog?
00;22;23;19 - 00;22;47;22
Fenya
Well, let me explain. Okay. So for like the last like 400 pages, but a lot of it, I found a slog because it was a lot of battles that were described as being really central and important and like the whole survival of the world hinged on them, except that, you know, that you still have another like 600 pages left.
So they can't be that important if you have another 600 pages left.
00;22;48;05 - 00;22;52;21
Thad
Well, I mean, what if the world had ended and we were kind of entering this world of desolation moment?
00;22;53;02 - 00;23;00;06
Fenya
I would have liked that a lot. Actually not to say that the book was not good. I did really enjoy the book.
00;23;00;12 - 00;23;01;25
Thad
Yeah. No, I get your perspective.
00;23;01;25 - 00;23;09;14
Fenya
Yeah, I just had a hard time reading battle after battle after battle after battle, knowing that there was still another however many hundred pages left.
00;23;10;04 - 00;23;32;14
Thad
Here's another perspective for you, though, coming up on the last book and you're having to read through all these battles, ugh, Rand gathering the rest of the great generals,ugh, and stuff like that. I mean, for me, it was “all right we’re at the end of the series, who's going to start dying? Who's going to die first? Are we going to lose someone important in one of these early battles that could have potentially made the last battle easier?”
00;23;32;26 - 00;23;35;18
Thad
So I was kind of hinged more on some character development.
00;23;35;20 - 00;24;01;01
Fenya
And also, I mean, quite frankly, I think you both had spent a lot more time with the series than I had. So you're probably a little more invested in the characters than I was. I mean, like, I like them for sure. Otherwise I wouldn't have read however many books. But having only read the series once, there were a lot of names where I was like, I know that you have shown up before, but I can’t actually remember who you are and I'm not going to look it up on Wikipedia because I don't like spoilers.
00;24;01;13 - 00;24;03;07
Doll
That's true for me too.
00;24;03;26 - 00;24;31;02
Thad
So I'm on my nth reread of the series at this point, and even I when a “new name” pops up, I pull out my compendium to go, Who was this person? Okay, because there is no way anybody is going to remember all of these names because there is…there's like 200 unique points of view in this and for every, you know, every point of view, there's like, I swear, 50 named characters..so..
00;24;31;02 - 00;24;32;23
Fenya
It was a little overwhelming.
00;24;33;02 - 00;24;44;12
Thad
It's like when Perrin goes back to the Two Rivers for the first time and it goes, Oh, hey, here's all these Two Rivers people, and he names everybody. And you go, I'm not going to remember that. I'm not going to remember that. I'm not going to remember that.
00;24;44;12 - 00;24;47;13
Fenya
I had less trouble with the Two Rivers names and more trouble with Aes Sedai.
00;24;48;06 - 00;24;57;05
Thad
It's because they all start sounding samey after a while. That's wild. That's the first time I've heard somebody go, “I found the last book to be kind of a slog.”
00;24;58;01 - 00;24;59;26
Doll
I can't say I’ve ever heard that before.
00;25;00;10 - 00;25;04;11
Fenya
I mean, and like I said, this is not considered the slog at all.
00;25;04;27 - 00;25;10;07
Thad
Well, that's why I say the slog is subjective. It depends on who is reading it and when they read it.
00;25;10;08 - 00;25;16;11
Fenya
Yeah. And I also wouldn't consider it, I mean, I would consider it a slog, but not THE slog.
00;25;16;26 - 00;25;30;23
Thad
Yeah. I think we can agree that the slog generally tends to happen around Winter’s Heart. That generally tends to be where most people kind of space out because the pacing definitely slows down after they find the Bowl of the Winds in Crown of Swords.
00;25;31;07 - 00;25;41;09
Doll
At some point in time I hadn't seen like a timeline that showed us when everything happens in like the first five books take place within like a year. Like a year?
00;25;41;10 - 00;25;42;20
Thad
Yeah, like one year.
00;25;42;24 - 00;25;47;12
Doll
And then those like next couple books take place in a couple of weeks and you're like, Oh.
00;25;47;25 - 00;26;05;07
Thad
Yeah, yeah. Something like that. Because they specifically mention in book five or maybe book six that, Oh yeah, we've been gone from the Two Rivers for only like a year, a year and a half tops and look at everything that has happened. Look at how much Rand has changed kind of thing.
00;26;05;18 - 00;26;10;24
Doll
Yeah. And then like Crossroads and Twilight with only a couple of days, it's like five days.
00;26;10;27 - 00;26;17;13
Thad
That book took me like over a month to read the first time, and it was like, oh, not even a week passed.
00;26;17;13 - 00;26;33;29
Fenya
Actually, speaking of Rand, I found him kind of a slog at points too. When he starts getting his insistence that he has to be hard, I'm like, okay, I get where you're coming from, but like, just just give it up, please just give it up.
00;26;33;29 - 00;26;40;14
Thad
For me, it was always whenever he would be like, I can't let the women die. It's like, Oh, God, come on, man.
00;26;40;14 - 00;26;44;24
Fenya
Sometimes you just have to kill an evil villainess. Like, you just do sometimes.
00;26;45;12 - 00;26;49;27
Doll
And you know, women are going to die because that's just the nature of being alive.
00;26;50;06 - 00;27;05;02
Thad
Don't worry, when somebody is going to die, Min will tell us who and how. Even if it shows up as, Oh, this Aes Sedai has blood across her forehead. I wonder what that means. And then two books later, there it is.
00;27;05;11 - 00;27;14;11
Fenya
And that's something that I think is really cool and I'm looking forward to experiencing when I go back and reread and seeing how there are these layers of foreshadowing.
00;27;14;29 - 00;27;24;06
Thad
Oh, it is impressive, sometimes. I will be in the middle of book four and then something will get said and I'm like, Oh man, that doesn't happen for another three books.
00;27;24;06 - 00;27;37;27
Doll
Yeah, he was pretty good at layering the foreshadowing at least to some degree, not so much with the relationships as we talked about last time. I'm going to foreshadow something that's going to happen six books down the line, but I can't foreshadow this relationship. I'm going to reveal in the next book.
00;27;39;02 - 00;27;40;09
Fenya
Two different skill sets.
00;27;40;20 - 00;27;41;01
Doll
Yeah.
00;27;41;12 - 00;27;45;03
Thad
If anything, he was really good at writing a battle, but not so much a relationship.
00;27;45;20 - 00;28;03;17
Doll
He was a historian and he saw Battle. He told that story about being the machine gunner on a helicopter. And one time he saw a rocket coming towards him and he shot it down. I think something like that, something practically impossible to do and he just assumed that he was going to die.
00;28;03;24 - 00;28;04;25
Fenya
Yeah, that's intense.
00;28;05;01 - 00;28;09;26
Doll
Yeah. I don't know how how true that is. Or, you know, if it was a little bit of a tall tale.
00;28;10;00 - 00;28;27;15
Fenya
This is a little bit of a detour and it'll come back to your point. But I was reading Terry Pratchett's biography, which was just released, and it was his personal assistant who wrote it. And he says about some of the stories that Pratchett used to say, some of them were too good to check if it was true or not. And I feel like this is too good to check.
00;28;27;28 - 00;28;32;27
Doll
Yeah, it's one of those. It's a little too hard to check. We just believe it. I don't know how you could check it.
00;28;33;00 - 00;28;34;07
Thad
There's really no way to. Yeah.
00;28;34;22 - 00;28;44;15
Doll
The only other part that really slogged for me was and this is evidence of how many times it took me to start the whole series, but Eye of the World was very slow.
00;28;44;20 - 00;29;10;03
Thad
I won't lie. I had probably a good three or four false starts on Eye of the World before I got going because you read this fantastic prologue to it. A guy raises a mountain as he dies. Then you go to the first chapter and it's “I'm chilly and I'm walking down a dark, cold trail with my father while I'm carrying ale.” “And I think I see something in the distance and I knock my bow” and it's just like, all right, what?
00;29;10;13 - 00;29;12;12
Fenya
I loved Eye of the world.
00;29;13;02 - 00;29;24;01
Thad
Oh, I love it now. I love it now. But as a 13 year old kid who just read something really cool and then we're on something not really cool in the first chapter, it's like, Come on.
00;29;24;21 - 00;29;36;10
Fenya
I didn't have any trouble with that. But I also did read it older. when maybe I appreciated just the little things, the small things, an easy life where you're carrying ale down to your village.
00;29;36;21 - 00;29;37;03
Thad
Yeah.
00;29;37;26 - 00;30;07;12
Doll
Yeah. I started it a couple of times in high school and between having to read some, you know, stuff for school and just not being able to get into that beginning, it just ended up I'd have to take it back to the library or when Robert loaned it to me the first time, I think Winter's Heart was coming out and he took Eye of the world back so that he could read it.
So I didn't finish at that time. Yeah. So it wasn't until I was trapped in bed for a month that he was like, Here, you can finally read these.
00;30;07;22 - 00;30;11;11
Thad
You're going to read it and you're going to enjoy it.
00;30;11;11 - 00;30;23;07
Doll
But the more he would bring me books to read and I would complain because I'd finish them in a couple of hours or a day or two. And considering how slow I read that was, like, I need something longer. He's like, Well, here, this is longer.
00;30;23;11 - 00;30;26;17
Fenya
You got your wish.
00;30;26;17 - 00;30;32;15
Doll
I did. I didn’t know what I was asking. All right, and I think if we have anything else sloggy to talk about…
00;30;32;20 - 00;30;34;14
Thad
If you get any other comments, now's the time.
00;30;34;20 - 00;30;39;21
Fenya
I think I've aired all of my slog comments, pretty much. Controversial though some of them may be.
00;30;41;00 - 00;30;43;15
Thad
Yeah, I think a little. A touch, a scotch.
00;30;43;25 - 00;30;46;17
Doll
I’m not sure “controversial” is right. It's just unique.
00;30;46;28 - 00;30;49;14
Thad
Yeah, we'll go…we'll go with that. Unique.
—------------------------------------------------------------
00;30;49;14 - 00;30;50;28
Fenya
The kind that we’re putting in.
00;30;51;11 - 00;30;55;16
Doll
Now I'm curious if any other like, you know, readers thought the same thing.
00;30;56;11 - 00;31;08;07
Thad
Yeah because it as we previously defined it was based on publication date and kind of I don't know about either of you, but for me I didn't have any friends reading it, so I didn't have anybody to talk to about it.
00;31;08;07 - 00;31;09;18
Doll
That’s why I was on TarValon.
00;31;09;22 - 00;31;44;09
Thad
Yeah, I was not. I was part of the the WoT mania group when it was around, but I think it went defunct in like 2000 or 2001. It wasn't around very long, but I was in that group of people and they were definitely more on the role play side of everything. So I didn't have anybody in my real life to talk to about it.
So it kind of became this self-contained thing to where when I just got upset with the series, when it got too slow, it was like just I'd have to just bottle it up and shove it down because I didn't have anybody to complain about it with.
00;31;44;14 - 00;31;51;08
Fenya
I sent Dianna a lot of very angry messages. I mean, I'm not angry at her, but, like, angry at the book. Yeah.
00;31;51;24 - 00;31;55;01
Thad
Yeah. Because for me, social media didn't exist at the time either.
00;31;55;23 - 00;32;38;28
Doll
You know, when I got done with Winter’s Heart and wanted to talk about it, actually before I read Winter’s Heart before I went out and bought it I wanted to talk about it, and Robert was like *shrug*, I'm like, But you made me read these books. We're going to talk about it. These like, yeah. Mm hmm. I don't know. I don't talk about books.
I'm like, you spent all the years talking about these books, trying to get me to read them, and now you don't talk about them. So he never actually read Winter’s Heart, really. He did eventually get around to reading it. He would read my copies after I finished, but he's not read the last three books. He's like too long since he last did the full reread and he's like, It's too much now.
So the slog knocked him out. He didn't get past it.
00;32;39;16 - 00;32;58;09
Thad
I've never been able to convince anybody to read past like the first book. So everybody gets I mean, because you also once you read past the first book, you realize just how weird the first book can be comparatively. Yes. But everybody just gets that first book and they're just like, I don't know, man. There's 13 more books. And I'm like, well, 14, if you include the prequel.
00;32;59;05 - 00;33;00;15
Fenya
Really selling it there.
00;33;00;15 - 00;33;13;08
Doll
Yeah, I know. I've heard people who like Wheel of Time fans are so weird. They'll be like, You just got to get past the first three or four books and then there's a couple books in the middle. But if you can get past those, the last three books are really good.
00;33;13;08 - 00;33;25;24
Thad
See that's what I do to my friends who always tell me, you need to watch the first season of this show and it gets better in the second. I'm like, Why am I going to waste this time on this show? Like, if you read The Wheel of Time, I'll watch the show.
00;33;26;19 - 00;33;29;08
Doll
All these years later. Still talking about the same book series.
00;33;29;15 - 00;33;31;26
Thad
I could talk about Wheel of Time all day long. You have no idea.
00;33;31;26 - 00;33;33;19
Fenya
There's a lot to talk about.
00;33;37;22 - 00;33;53;23
Doll
In this segment our hosts will take turns telling us about their favorite moments from the books. Please be warned that this segment may remain spoilers. If you have not finished reading the books, I suggest you stop listening now and join us next time.
Thad, I believe you are going to talk about your favorite scene.
00;33;53;23 - 00;33;56;24
Thad
Oh, yes. I even wrote a thing for this.
00;33;57;09 - 00;34;02;02
Fenya
I was very impressed when you said that you wrote a thing. That's way more effort than I put into it.
00;34;02;15 - 00;34;04;19
Doll
I know. I was like, I'm just going to talk about it.
00;34;04;27 - 00;37;58;15
Thad
So yeah, mine happens during the first book specifically. So after being separated from Thom at the White Bridge, when Thom stops the Myrddraal so Mat and Rand can get away. The boys spent their time moving eastwards towards Caemlyn after stealing eggs, sleeping in bushes, working at farms. They finally have a good day at Master Grinwell’s farm. After that, their luck seems to be improving.
They work their way through the villages, performing at inns and sleeping in real beds. The thoughts of the Myrddraal are fading fast as they get closer to Caemlyn, then they reach for kings. One of Rand’s immediate thoughts of the place was, “I don't know about this place. I don't like it. We should just move on.” To which Mat goads at him about wanting to sleep in the bushes again.
Rand remains doubtful about it, but he follows Mat as they search for an inn to perform at. The fourth inn that they come across, the Dancing Cartman is where they end up. The innkeeper is a bony man with long stringy hair, Saml Hake. His first impression is not great as he backhands a serving made for making a comment in front of Mat and Rand. You can see just what kind of person he is, but somehow that doesn't scare Rand and Mat away.
Rand and Mat eventually settle on the terms of employment for their time, and that night they begin to bring a crowd in to, up to this point, a nearly empty inn. It is also heavily threatening rain outside, this will all make sense soon. Rand keeps seeing Hake eyeing his heron-marked blade and Thom's gleeman instruments.
Rand mentions to Mat that he thinks they're going to rob them. They were unable to do anything at this point due to the common room being completely full as they played. Rand notices that that there is one man there that is different. He has a very expensive look to him which stood out against literally everybody else in the common room.
Hake keeps trying to run Mat and Rand to the bone on performances. It's begun pouring rain outside. Rand sneaks outside and Hake lets them go to eat and he sees a name on a merchant's cart outside that they saw earlier. It says “Howel Gode” He remembers seeing this cart at White Bridge. He immediately starts freaking out about this.
So he heads back into the inn and he tells Mat what he's seen. And at this point, Hake's bodyguard are watching Mat and Rand like eagles. Gode is hanging out in the common room watching the boys as well, things are getting very tense. After the evening passes, the common room clears out, Hake showing Rand and Mat to the rooms in the back. The hair on the back of their necks are starting to stand up at this point. Hake's bodyguards are on basically at their side the entire time. Rand basically knows at this point that they're going to rob them blind once they're asleep. So once they're in the room, they decide to block the door so that they can escape out the window, only to realize that the windows have iron bars over them. They're pretty much trapped in this room, thunder begins, rattling in the distance.
So using the thunder as cover, they try to break the iron bars from the window. Then they hear a voice. They think it's the innkeeper Hake that's come to rob them. But actually it's the voice of Howel Gode. He has come for the boys. He has basically outed himself as a dark friend, and he attempts to coerce them into giving themselves up to the Dark One. So he attempts to break into the room, demanding them to submit. Rand begins to absolutely freak out.
Thunder is roaring overhead at this point. Rand keeps muttering that they have to find a way out and light fills the room. The air is roared and burned and Rand felt himself getting thrown against the wall. Then he staggers to his feet and looks around him after regaining his vision. The wall where the iron barred window had been once was gone. Gode was nowhere to be seen. So Mat and Rand gather their belongings and escape through the giant hole in the wall into the rain, listening behind them, through the storm, for the sound of a pursuit.
So this has always been one of my favorite scenes in the book, because this is basically the first time that we see Rand channel without knowing that Rand channeled because he got pinned into a corner and basically destroyed the side of an inn with lightning to get himself out.
00;37;58;16 - 00;38;00;08
Doll
It's not the first time we see Rand channel.
00;38;00;14 - 00;38;01;01
Thad
Is it not?
00;38;01;13 - 00;38;03;03
Doll
It’s the most obvious one.
00;38;03;04 - 00;38;08;09
Thad
It's the, okay, well, it's the most obvious one that he absolutely did channel in this instance.
00;38;08;18 - 00;38;25;23
Doll
Yeah. There are a couple of places where he channels that aren't as obvious, one when they're leaving Two Rivers he channels to make Bela less tired. And then again, there's another place I can't remember right now, but you see him get sick every time he gets more sick each time. It's something I didn't catch the first time around.
00;38;26;23 - 00;38;29;06
Thad
I don't think I've ever caught that, to be honest.
00;38;29;20 - 00;38;36;23
Fenya
I was going to say that I did not notice that when I read it the first time. I didn't also notice the scene Thad that you were just describing.
00;38;36;26 - 00;38;39;22
Doll
Yeah, that one was obvious. I mean more obvious.
00;38;39;27 - 00;39;06;16
Thad
It's basically he's a rat pushed into a corner and he's got he's got, you know, a Darkfriend at the door going, “Come on, you know you want to submit, it'll be so much easier if you do it.” And it's kind of one of those things of he's pinned in a corner fight or flight mode. He fights by summoning lightning to destroy the inn wall and they just escape out into the rain.
And that's the end of the chapter is they are they are running in the rain.
00;39;06;24 - 00;39;19;09
Fenya
I vaguely remember the setup if not that specific scene, but I definitely, I don't think on my first read, on my only read through I don't think I necessarily at that point connected the dots that that was him channeling.
00;39;19;21 - 00;39;26;09
Thad
Oh I absolutely did not the first time either. It wasn't until like a couple of books later where I where I was like, Oh.
00;39;26;20 - 00;39;36;24
Doll
They sleep in the bushes after that. And he has a massive fever. It's channeling sickness, but that's the channeling sickness you get after having done it for a while, not the first time you do it.
00;39;37;05 - 00;39;43;23
Thad
Yeah. And we get that really awesome dream of seeing how Gode turning to ash and just dying in the wind.
00;39;44;17 - 00;40;01;06
Doll
They sort of mimic that in the TV show when they had him with the Darkfriend, the before Thom, Dana, Dana, couldn’t remember her name. When Dana had him in the room and she said it was Ironwood and you know, ten men couldn't knock it down and then he shouldered it open.
00;40;01;06 - 00;40;04;27
Thad
Yeah, that was basically that was basically this scene without being this scene.
00;40;05;00 - 00;40;24;02
Doll
And I'm surprised at how few people picked up that he channeled there like when they watched it. Cause the friends I was watching with, I was the only one that like, “He just channeled, didn’t he?” I'm like he had to have channeled. He wasn't big enough to have knocked that door down. That’s the only way he did it. When they reveal him as the Dragon, you see the weaves around him.
00;40;24;11 - 00;40;33;09
Thad
Like the first time I watched it, I was like, Yeah, that's the scene. And then on a rewatch I noticed that the name of the inn was specifically called The Four Kings.
00;40;34;00 - 00;40;39;12
Doll
Yep, it was called the Four Kings. There's a reference to that. Since they cut it out.
00;40;39;24 - 00;40;56;03
Thad
So yes, this is probably one of my favorite. There is a dozen, dozens and dozens of scenes, but I think this one will always remain one of my favorites, specifically just because of how tense the setup is to a very obvious like, Oh, Rand just channeled.
00;40;56;09 - 00;41;11;11
Fenya
It feels like a very cinematic scene. I mean, like, I'm really excited to go back and reread that scene now and I'm not going to do it anytime soon, probably because I just don't have the time. But when I when I do eventually go back and reread the first book, I'm going to keep an eye out.
00;41;11;24 - 00;41;49;29
Doll
Okay. So I just found a post on a forum recently talking about the times that Rand channeled in the Eye of the world. The first one was after fleeing on Winter's night, Rand used the power to refresh Bela.
“If Bela fell back, he would fall back too, whatever Moiraine and Lan had to say about it. Back where the Fade and the Trollocs were, back to where the Drakhar was. With all his heart and desperation, he silently shouted at Bela to run like the wind. Silently tried to will the strength into her, “Run”. His skin prickled and his bones felt as if they were freezing, ready to split open, “The light, help her run”. And Bella ran.
00;41;50;02 - 00;41;54;16
Thad
You see, that could easily be misconstrued as he is just anxiety Rand.
00;41;55;02 - 00;41;57;16
Fenya
I mean, that's how I construed it the first time.
00;41;57;16 - 00;42;50;18
Doll
For the first time I read it, I would have too. But when I went back, I'm like, he channeled. And then I think at some point someone mentioned like it was surprised that Bela was less tired than the other horses. It may have been Lan or Moiraine. And then again in Baerlon, after Mat plays a prank on the Whitecloaks:
“Rand moved to cover the sword, but instead swept his cloak back over his shoulder. In the back of his head was a frantic wonder at what he was doing, but it was a distant thought. “Accidents happen,” he said, “even to the children of the Light”. Bornhald asked some questions, a tingling thrill, ran along Rand’s arm and legs. He felt flushed and almost warm. The tingling fills Rand, the heat had grown into a fever. He went to laugh. It felt so good. A small voice in his head shouted that something was wrong. All he could think of was how full of energy he felt nearly bursting with it.”
00;42;50;26 - 00;42;54;02
Thad
So was that was that a very early glimpse at Lews Therin there?
00;42;54;02 - 00;42;57;07
Doll
That was a very early glimpse of him losing control of the Power.
00;42;57;08 - 00;42;58;06
Thad
Oh, I see.
00;42;58;15 - 00;43;04;24
Doll
I think even Egwene had talked about the thrill like that you've got the Power feeling you and you have this elation.
00;43;05;00 - 00;43;14;08
Fenya
I mean, once again, I think it's just incredible how much Jordan left for you to realize on a reread. Like, that's not something that every author can do very well.
00;43;14;15 - 00;43;23;20
Doll
Yeah, there's so much in that first book that when you go back knowing that Rand's the Dragon, where you can see he's channeling that last one, is the one that's the most obvious.
00;43;23;20 - 00;43;34;14
Fenya
Or knowing what being the Dragon means because I mean, he knows that he's the Dragon from a very early on I feel. But you don't really internalize what that means until you read further.
00;43;34;14 - 00;43;48;08
Doll
Yeah, I guess that's when like you have a sense that there's something with Rand because you know that he's not Tam’s real son and so know that he's the one that Moiraine was looking for, but not so much why she was looking for him until they get to the Eye of the World.
00;43;49;02 - 00;44;31;19
Thad
So that'll be it for this episode of TarValon Talks. Thanks for joining us to talk about the slog and what it means to each and every one of us. If you have any questions about it, you can always shoot us an email at producer.tvt@gmail.com or drop in to us on the TarValon.Net forums and leave us a question in the thread under General. You can even join us in our newly created #tarvalon-talks-podcast topic thread inside of the TarValon.Net Discord channel, which you can join by going to tarvalon.net. Thanks for listening in and until next time, stay safe.
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